County residents should not pay for bus service in city

You do realize that we are only one of a few counties in the United States that does NOT use county tax dollars to support public transportation, don't you?

Also, you list Mill Creek Park, the Airport, and Lake Milton State Park in making your argument that there is bias toward support of our major urban center, the city - 2 1/2 of the three examples listed have nothing to do with the city. I get your larger point but fail to connect your examples with your claim in this instance.

Mr. Kidd, Mill Creek Park used to be funded solely by the city of Youngstown. Lake Milton was owned by the city of Youngstown, until the dam was found to be unsafe, and the city unloaded Lake Milton on the state, who footed the bill for repairs on the dam. The lake sat dry for a few years while this took place.

I feel that Mr. Brant hit the nail squarely on the head. Why, if the Youngstown-owned Mill Creek Park reinvented itself and became a county-funded "Metro Park" does the Metro Park District not fund all the parks in said district? That's a prime example of the rest of the county bailing out Youngstown and getting nothing in return but higher taxes. Austintown, Boardman, Canfield, and so on, except Yellow Creek Park in Struthers, still are funded by their own tax levies, paid by the same folks who are funding Mill Creek Park.

That's what people are afraid will happen with the WRTA - please don't insult anybody by trying to make them believe the WRTA will run a bus route all over the county. Once you're away from the city and its suburbs, the population is simply too sparse to make it efficient to plan a usable bus route. That means New Middletown, New Springfield, and even North Lima, as well as points west. Yet they're being asked to fund the WRTA. What, realistically, do they get in return? Higher taxes and nothing else, just like Mill Creek Park.

I also agree with Mr. Brant when he asks why the county commissioners would put this levy on the ballot when it was resoundingly thumped in the last election. The people have said "NO!" by a large majority. Yes, we know the WRTA needs the money. But we aren't so gullible as to believe there will be buses running every 20 minutes through Beloit, Ellsworth, and all the other small, rural towns.

Don't be fooled by the WRTA levy and the proposed county wide bus service. It's a "City Bus Service" only, always has been, always will be with a couple runs out on the main roads. I'll be voting NO in November for Austintown.

Suburbanites - Please join me in telling Mayor Jay & his city where to go with their city bus service funded by the county.Vote NO !!!

"Austintown, Boardman, Canfield, and so on, except Yellow Creek Park in Struthers, still are funded by their own tax levies, paid by the same folks who are funding Mill Creek Park."

Youngstown still has a parks department to maintain its own parks, too. So, how is Youngstown different from the suburbs? Also, isn't a large portion of Mill Creek Park in Boardman?

"...please don't insult anybody by trying to make them believe the WRTA will run a bus route all over the county. Once you're away from the city and its suburbs, the population is simply too sparse to make it efficient to plan a usable bus route."

You're right. Well over half the population of Mahoning county is concentrated in the 6 northeastern townships/cities. It is inefficient to service the other rural areas with a fixed route. That's why the dial a ride system would be made available to the entire county. (And, I've heard Mr. Ferarro, on the radio, talking about a satellite service out in the Sebring area that would provide buses on a fixed route to neighboring larger cities outside of Mahoning county.)

"Youngstown still has a parks department to maintain its own parks, too. So, how is Youngstown different from the suburbs? Also, isn't a large portion of Mill Creek Park in Boardman?"

There's one basic difference: Austintown, Boardman and/or Canfield, and so on, did NOT once own Mill Creek Park, provide sole support for it, and when it became costly foist it off on the rest of the county in an election that still stinks today.

"Well over half the population of Mahoning county is concentrated in the 6 northeastern townships/cities."

Yes, including the city of Youngstown, whose residents stand to gain a drop in their property taxes if this thing passes. Gosh, I wonder how THEY'RE going to vote? What this whole election will come down to is whether Austintown, Boardman, and Canfield can be made to believe they stand to gain enough - assuming anyone there even WANTS a bus, much less believes one will be there should they want it - to vote for the thing. Unfortunately for them, the western half and southern border of Mahoning County is not much more than just along for the ride on this one.

"That's why the dial a ride system would be made available to the entire county."

Oh, please. How's that going to work? Someone in Ellsworth wants to take public transit to their doctor in North Jackson, and at the same time someone in the northern half of Washingtonville wants to go to work in New Springfield. Are there going to be TWO chauffer-driven vehicles shuttling individuals hither and yon, subsidized by the taxpayers of the county? Will there be three? Or, because there might be one or two calls for service in any given year's time, will there be any available?

"(And, I've heard Mr. Ferarro, on the radio, talking about a satellite service out in the Sebring area that would provide buses on a fixed route to neighboring larger cities outside of Mahoning county.)"

Many years ago, H G Wells talked about Martians invading the Earth, on the radio too. Doesn't mean it ever happened, or ever will.

YoungstownKidd: Actually Cleveland is going after the state for better funding of their public transportation. Not the residents that live there. I think there are more options then putting more taxes on the people. I just think that we as a county, we do not bennefit for the city buses. There is one bus route out to Boardman, but that is it. Sorry it's a NO vote for me.

Trumbull and Columbiana county have rural transits supported by the County.There is a need,not everyone owns a car or can drive.Elderly disabled and young need rides to doctors work school,shopping etc.Since youngstowm already has bus service,the rest of the county has the most to gain.City resident has it right.I vote yes.To old man grump your name says it all.

Here's the problem. Those buses do not drive outside of the Youngstown area, so how are they going to get the people of outter laying areas to work, school, shopping, or the doctors? Plus city buses don't go to a direct places. If you are sick and need to get to the doctor's, your not going be dropped off at the front door. Who wants walk a blocks to get there when they are sick? As for people without cars, my grandma never drove. We, her family and next door neighbor, ALWAYS made sure she got everywhere she need to be or wanted to be. You say the rest of the county has more to gain? Why? Not many people I know from the burbs want to ride a bus, let along drive, to the city of Youngstown for anything. There are others means beside busing to get to the places you listed. So it's still a NO vote for me.

"my grandma never drove. We, her family and next door neighbor, ALWAYS made sure she got everywhere she need to be or wanted to be."

Not everyone is that lucky. Actually, I would guess that most are not that lucky.

But, I'm really going to try to stay out of this discussion for now. There are none so blind as those who will not see

Get the facts,outlying areas will get door to door service,no need to walk blocks or to go into youngstown. Everyone is not as lucky as your grandmother to have family left in the area,many have moved away for jobs.Disabled workers need rides to and from work,five days a week month after month.Try finding rides to and from your job day after day.

tclint48 - you haven't a clue about the WRTA. It's levy vote will fail in November and stay a city bus service with reduced routes as it should.

It is mainly a city bus servie and not for the entire county. If we want that we would all jump on WRAT bus in lake Milton and go to Boardman. Hmm,there seems to be a problem,only the area around the city ahs WRTA buses and mainly city people ride them. Not many county folk do and why should famrers pay for it when they hardly have to go to the city sicne they grow thier own food and in some cases amke their own cloths. Seems the only mahoning county anyone cares about is the city but our couty has a lot of country side in the south and west.

Now wait a minute - the outlying areas will get door-to-door service?? But you're asking me to pay my taxes to support the buses too, same as them. Where's MY door-to-door service? I have to walk for blocks and stand in the rain or snow waiting on the bus. That's the way bus service works. What you're claiming the rural areas will get is subsidized taxi rides. I want that - I don't want to wait in the rain or snow, after I've carried packages for several blocks. I don't want to share the ride with people who I don't care to associate with, or who may try to rob me.

Haven't we been told before that the reason the WRTA has the large buses when only a handful of people ride them, is that that's what the federal government subsidizes for them to buy? So that's what they have - full size buses. Now people are expecting me to believe that same outfit that has nothing but full size buses is going to provide door-to-door service to the rural areas of the county. Exactly how is that going to be cost-efficient?

"Oh, they'll get smaller vehicles!" you'll say. So where are those smaller vehicles now? Any bus I've seen in the past several years could be replaced with a 15-passenger van, and still have seats left over. There's a need for smaller vehicles RIGHT NOW. The need's been there for years. The WRTA hasn't bought any. We were told they couldn't. So which is it?

They wil lnot add routes for the whole county since it would not make much since as afr as money goes,too far to drive not enough riders to make it worth it.

The taxes from the county wide levy would only benefit the city of Youngstown, as usual. So the levy should be a city levy not a county levy! But the city would not generate enough money from a levy cause many resident don't pay taxes.

"But the city would not generate enough money from a levy cause many resident don't pay taxes."

I just have to ask, what are you talking about??? We're talking about a new sales tax. (For every $100 you spend on taxable items, an extra quarter would would go to the WRTA.) When do Youngstown residents get an exemption from paying sales tax?

And since I let myself get sucked back in...

"Haven't we been told before that the reason the WRTA has the large buses when only a handful of people ride them, is that that's what the federal government subsidizes for them to buy? So that's what they have - full size buses. Now people are expecting me to believe that same outfit that has nothing but full size buses is going to provide door-to-door service to the rural areas of the county. Exactly how is that going to be cost-efficient?"

The WRTA has some smaller van-buses. They are used for the current "SPECIALIZED TRANSPORTATION SERVICE (SST)" Look for that phrase here for more information: http://www.wrtaonline.com/aboutus.htm I think this program is also subsidized by the government. I guess that's why they can't be used for the fixed routes. (they wouldn't hold up nearly as well, anyway) I don't know if this same service is what they would provide to the entire county, or not.

When I lived in Youngstown I would see buses running with no riders on them and I would say to myself "what a waste of money". Can someone tell me how many people ride the bus everyday in Youngstown area? You cannot expect people to keep paying for a service that very few use. Its called cut backs, cut the fat from the routes. There is only 80,000 people in Youngstown do we need this service? Come on you are not some big city that needs to cut down on folks driving there own cars. When Youngstown had 160,000 I could see it but not now. And why you are at it stop the patrols in the outline areas of the county with the Sheriff. Start putting those patrols in the ares that need it most.

Not as many a they make it out to be.

But you see we do not want to pay a new sales tax! We do not want to give more money to the city. Most of them don't pay for sale taxes either. So they have to bank on the out laying area to afford their busing for them. Bus rates are very, and i mean very cheap. They need to keep the bus route limited as is and not worry about asking for a new sales tax!

For Youngsotwn mainy.

"When I lived in Youngstown I would see buses running with no riders on them"

How long ago was that? Ridership had been increasing steadily until they had to cut back due to state and federal funding. I've read that they were up to about 6000 passengers per day. (That was back when gas was still in the $2.XX/gallon range, imagine how many would be riding now, if the level of service hadn't been cut.) But, to answer your second question, they are now down to about 4000. (see past Vindy articles to verify this)

"You cannot expect people to keep paying for a service that very few use. Its called cut backs, cut the fat from the routes."

They have, a lot. No more nights and weekends, elimination of entire routes, running some routes less often. I believe they've cut staff too. But I can't remember the numbers.

"When Youngstown had 160,000 I could see it but not now."

Youngstown, and its adjacant suburbs have at least 160,000.

Good public transportation services are needed in mahoning county.. and those that can, should support the services that are provided...you may be in need one day.
Public transportation is a god send in high fuel times like these, and those that are able to, would benefit from using it. WRTA has made cutbacks based on the economy, not so much because less people need the bus.
Dont be fooled just because Youngstown is a "dump" does not mean that thousands do not live there and need the bus.

If the WRTA had the funding to put back what they cut and maybe some extra, the ammount of people using the bus would increase, reducing the ammount of monies they would normally spend on say a taxi, or fuel for their own vehicles, and in turn go right back into the transportation thats needed.

In my opinion, the money that the department of Jobs & Family Services shells out on ride services and taxi companies, should be given to the WRTA to expand its services so it can provide to everyone in the close outlying areas of Youngstown. I used to work for a taxi company and I have seen the 10's of thousands of dollars spent monthly for people on assistance, money that could be used to revamp the busing system instead.

You cannot keep asking for more when people are making less. Why do you people think companys are moving out of Ohio. because the state and local govts want more and more from them. So the same thing can be said about John Q public. If you keep asking for more they are going to say no, and move away. Then there goes more taxes not being collected. I do not think for one moment that more people are on the bus than there was in 1980-1997. there may be more people on a bus because they are cutting the number of buses that run on a route.I can tell you I seen buses running up Market street without a soul on them. Many ,many times I seen this.

Maybe we should have the govt take over WRTA too. Why not they are taking over the mortgage giants and will take over the the airlines soon I am sure. Then the world can call us the little socialist country in the west. After this I swear I will not post about this subject again. If a company can not make money then it needs to fail. No if or buts , let it fall. I hate to see people out of work, but hey thats the nature of the beast.I have lost 3 jobs in the Ytown area since 1994. Did it suck? "YES" but you pick yourself up and move on. The places I worked never asked for asst. they shut the doors and moved on. One even made a come back 3 years later. If WRTA can not make on there own or with what they got coming in then its time to say "by by". Thats just life. And before you ask, I never collected Unemployment.

"I do not think for one moment that more people are on the bus than there was in 1980-1997."

Sure there are. (or were, before the cuts, maybe) What did gas cost in 1997?

"If a company can not make money then it needs to fail. No if or buts , let it fall."

So you're against all mass-transit in the U.S. then? You're entitled to your opinion, I guess.

Enough discussion already, the suburbs will vote NO and the City will vote YES. Hopefully, the suburbs will win, then the WRTA can become a Youngstown City bus service only which it really is now.

Mass Transit for Mahoning County - bah humbug, it will never work or be worth the cost to do it right.

Enjoy this related story:
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/2008-09-0...

City you say it has increased to about 6,000 riders. So how many of them are from the burbs? I mean cause you say there is about 160,000 residents with the burbs. So that is a very low percentage of people riding the bus. And i bet very few live in the burgs, well Boardman maybe, since that is the only burb area it goes to. I just think that right now with everything going up in price and us live in the burbs will still have to pay high gas prices even if they levy passes cause ther still will be no route to the outer burbs. It just NOT worth it! My vote is still NO!!!

I look at it as a "city problem" not a county and if you drive to Youngstown from Sebring the you still won;t be on the bus.

Akron is a little different they went from 65 cents to a dollar but provided limited services to Cleveland, and met Canton at a stop and used to run to Kent State. The Cleveland buses are full and buses run late, real late to some places.

Of course Akron is bigger and close to Canton and Cleveland and Kent.

maybe mayor JEDD will shut their water off if they don't vote "YES" ????

Why not, he has the power to do so and the will.

Thanks for the link OMG. We're not the only place in the US that is having this funding problem. But, we have a possible solution to the problem because the WRTA hasn't already become a county entity.

andersonathan,
Why does Stark county have a county wide service? Canton is about the same size as Youngstown.

Well Canton is just difernet in how they do things plus thy have more city areas then we do and they are close to Akron.

And no one is commenting on the first letter? I'm wondering where young women are baring their breasts in public.

let's see in Younsgtown and at the park. It seems to always happen Drugs would sure make more people do these kinds of crazy things.

I don't think girls are baring their breast. i think the writer thinks the clothes are too reveling. But it is not the government's right or responsiblity to tell girls or women how to dress. I believe it's a girl's parent who need to teach their child to respect themself and to dress respectfully. Plus the person writting this letter is holier then thou religious person. If this person ever actually read their bible, they would know that Adam and Eve were naked until adam ate the fruit. Then were barely clothed. I do agree that girl dress too sexy and that those designing the clothes need to tone it down. But it is DEFINATELY up to a girl's parents to teach her that the less you bare, the more you leave to the imagination.

Not as much as the stry makes it seems. If you would undertsand his it is that it amkes it out that everyone has their boobs hanging out which is jsut not the case.

I want to state that I am grateful for the service to Austintown that WRTA provided until recently. I have a friend who is losing her eyesight. She is a senior citizen who provided a valued service to many area residents for years. Because the WRTA provided a door to door service for the handicapped and elderly, she was able to get around with dignity. It's too bad that more residents don't realize the opportunities in public transportation.