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Forum will ask judge to void 2 labor contracts
Published: Thu, July 2, 2009 @ 8:50 p.m.
YOUNGSTOWN — One day after agreeing to a concessionary contract with one of its unions, Forum Health announced that it would ask a federal judge to void two of its labor agreements.
Forum Health’s board of trustees has rejected a proposed labor agreement with nurses at Northside Medical Center and members of the Service Employees International Union which would have saved the hospital system more than $4.4 million, officials said.
According to a news release issued by the hospital Thursday evening, the board turned down the proposal after trustees decided the contract wasn’t in the best interest of the hospital’s long-term financial plan.
For more on this story, see Friday’s Vindicator or Vindy.com
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Comments
That's what bankruptcies are for. If the unions refuse to take the necessary cuts to make Forum viable, then it's the bankruptcy courts responsibility to void those contracts and tell the unions what they'll make. Just another union(s) causing the downfall of a company.
RFederer - You are missing the point. The ONA union negotiated for months with Forum. AGREEMENT WAS REACHED AND SIGNED BY BOTH PARTIES. THIS AGREEMENT WAS BASED UPON THE HOSPITAL OWN PROPOSALS. THE UNION DID NOT REFUSE ANYTHING - THEY ACTUALLY RATIFIED WHAT BOTH PARTIES AGREED TO. GET IT? CAN YOU SAY BAD FAITH. LAST I CHECKED YOU HAVE TO NEGOTIATE IN GOOD FAITH TO GET A COURT TO REJECT A LABOR CONTRACT.
heartdoc, do you understand bankruptcy? There shouldn't be any negotiating. The hospital doesn't need to negotiate. They should just present to the bankruptcy judge what they determine they can afford to pay and the bankruptcy judge authorizes it with the input from the debtors. This local concept that unions can negotiate with companies in bankruptcy is a fallacy of the unions thinking. Time for the unions to give back and make Forum viable or watch it disappear.
The article says the agreements looking to be terminated would have led to $4.4 million in savings, so the unions apparently were giving stuff up. Sounds like the trustees are being greedy now, not the union.
RFederer - Sure do understand it - why don't you try reading section 1113 of the bankruptcy code - the court has no authority to void a union contract unless they bargain in good faith over such necessary changes and the union has no basis for refusal. Both sides reached an Agreement here - no refusal by the ONA RN union here. That law you can take to the bank.
The 4.4 million was just from the concessionary modifications that the ONA RNs agreed to make to their existing Agreement and signed off on last week with the Hospital attorneys and management team. Those modifications were touted all over the Hospital by management, and the Hospital was very happy last week with the ONA RN changes. The 4.4 million in savings has nothing to do with SEIU workers or whatever it is that they might do.
RFederer....you are another ill-informed reader making blanket decisions about unions. They are NOT the reason Forum is in the mess it's in. I guess it's easier to blame them when the real culprits are long gone. If any hurt was done because of union contracts, remember this, the hospital has to agree in order to have a contract or NO CONTRACT!
Heartdoc should stick to medicine. In bankruptcy ALL contracts can be declared null and void by edict of the bankruptcy judge. What any unions deem as a contract isn't worth a hill of beans.
Then as usual, the union lovers claim that it's prior management that is to blame. It's never the unions fault! Always management. That my friends is why the valley is still stuck in the recession started by the closing of the steel mills.
RFederer - You have no idea what you are talking about. You are anti-union without even knowing why you are anti-union. Your opinion is based on others opinion who are anti-union. You don't even try to see both sides of the story. The Union gave Forum everything they asked. Forum is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on "consultants", giving bonuses in the millions to upper management who just ran the company into bankruptcy, among other wasted money.
How is management not to blame. What was the previous CEO's buyout? What was the pay of the top executives? Yet I am sure you cry over Union wages. Have you ever worked in a hospital? Have you talked to a nurse?
The doc has the contract right. Judges typically step in when the Union doesn't bargain in good faith, which this Union has. Then again judges don't always follow the law.
On top of all that, who is going to serve the poor of Youngstown? That is primarily who comes to Northside. One of the major contributors to that hospital losing money is that a high percentage of people go there for treatment who have no health insurance.
Let's look at this in the big picture. How about the contracts get voided, they bring in non-Union workers who make half of what the Union nurses make, then we can bring in LESS tax money to an already weak tax base.
In my opinion, companies are filing bankruptcy right now because it is the thing to do. It used to be a black eye. Not any longer. It is easier to file bankruptcy, get out from paying your debt, void contracts then it is to work out of it. Then the top brass can still walk away with there multi-million dollar bonuses. Yet a nurses making 15-$20 an hour makes too much money. Management doesn't want to work anything out, they know filing is easier, and they still get paid.
RFederer - yes it was management who decided to pay Kris Hoce and the likes millions of dollars, sign non-terminable property lease contracts at over 25% of the national average, negotiate 3rd party health insurance payor contracts with anthem and the like that reimburse them a pittance, sell off assets like Tods and Beeghly pretending as though they were going to fund all the employees pension plans (non union and union alike), provide country club memberships to the bean counter executives. RFederer - the job of the care givers is to take care of the patients and treat their medical needs at a medical institution. A few at the top treated Forum like their personal bank account - executives and out of town consultants and the like. They paid Keith Ghezzi MILLIONS of dollars and now he is working in new york and D.C. touting that he turned around Forum Health - I guess he did not get the memo that Forum is in bankrutpcy.
The only mistakes management made is to give the unions what they demanded to keep the labor peace. So the unions made way more than an organization that is taking in the poor and destitute can pay to its worker. A recipe for bankruptcy.
Actually you are wrong - the hospital pays much more in costs to agency workers than union or non-union workers (so that you can understand RFederer that means these workers are actually not "employees"). The reason for this is that they (the hospital) cannot keep or attract professionals to work for them - this is increasing at an alarming rate. They have to go to outside agencies and pay agency RNs $60 to 70 per hour because there are just not enough nurses at Forum. The same with other professional direct care givers. So if you are going to run a business, you have to be able to attract the employees that are essential to providing patient care. Driving away nurse and other professional EMPLOYEE CAREGIVERS is counterproductive to the mission and profitability of the hospital because you will just be paying outside agencies higher costs to take care of the patients, hence you operational costs increase exponentially. If you consistently blame the workers or unions for the strategic mistakes the organization has made without addressing the mismanagement of the institution (which has nothing to do with employee benefits and wages) the institution will continue to circle the drain. RFederer your myopic theory of blaming the union was advanced by the Forum has-beens which got Forum into this situation, meanwhile they continued to rob the institution blind.
The main problem is there simply aren't enough paying customers in the valley to support 2 hospital systems.
Second, you claim that the execs are robbing the place blind. Can't be since the bankruptcy court decides all expenditures. I doubt the court would allow robbing by anyone.
I think heartdoc is talking about the systemic reasons why the institution is in this mess - previous poor management decisions. The court maybe monitoring it now ...they need to institute protections so execs cannot run off with it again.
I'll bet heartdoc is sure robbing the system! Somehow executives that make high wages are the scourge of the earth. It's never the workers who are at fault for milking a system that is funded by the poor and destitute or government via taxpayers really. It's always bad decisions by the management. Funny how these entities going under all have bad management and unions?
this is a great strand - keep it coming - rfederer's conclusions are based in bias and hatred - rather than facts and logic....
MEDICAL PEOPLE, I HAVE ONE VERY GOOD IDEA. IT MAY SOUND HARSH AND MEAN, BUT WILD CAT !! IF MANAGEMENT CAN MAN THE JOB SO BE IT.AFTER ALL THEY CLAIM ALOT. LIKE THE UNDER FUNDING OF YOUR PENSION. WHAT A HONEST COMPANY!THIS IS THE ONLY WAY. WHEN THEY START HIRING PEOPLE AND GETTING MEDICAL SUPPLIES WE'LL SEE HOW GOOD OF MANAGERS THEY ARE. I THINK AND KNOW THE TEAMSTERS WILL SUPPORT YOUR WILD CAT STRIKE! GOOD LUCK AND YOU HAVE MY SUPPORT TOTALY.
Yeah, WildCat.... Great Idea. You can stand there on the picket line with your signs and watch while they padlock the doors FOREVER!.
RFederer isn't willing to see anything but apparent hate for the unions. I'm neither a union advocate or union hater...unions have their place. My comments are generated from 30 years of experience with Forum Health. I've been part of what this system is going through. The unions have not had the kind of clout you're speaking of for years. The contracts, some not very beneficial to the hosptial, were a result of bad management. Plain and simple. What you also weren't aware of was the theft of millions that went. So please Mr. RFederer, don't speak about things you're ill equipped to argue about
SInce when did GM offer nursing degrees??
Having given Forum more than 20 years of loyal service before leaving and relocating, I'd like to let the public know that, in the years I was there, at least 2 CEO's embezzeled millions of dollars and were never forced to make any restitution. In the years since, they have hired more VP's than any organizations should be allowed. Those same VP's are paid 6-figure salaries to, from all indications, run the hospital into bankruptcy. When are they going to get rid of these blood-sucking sloths. It's time that they be held responsible for their failures. I worked hard all those years earning my pension, and now may not have it in the next few years. Yet they'll have their expensive cars, houses, country club memberships and lavish vacations. At the same time, those of us who took care of the needy of the community will, most likely, not be able to afford our basic necessities. SHAME ON YOU FORUM!
formerforumrn....kudos to you.....no one wants to dwell on the past because it's counterproductive and everyone wants to move forward. I agree, to a point. Everyone needs to know why this happened ......THE TRUTH, not what the board and current management want folks to believe.
I hear alot of accusations about Forum...but not much proof. Bankruptcy court will hopefully bring out the truth and steer this company into the right direction!
I've always asked the question, how can a hospital go out of business? Their beds are always filled and people will always get sick....amazing!!!
AGENCY NURSES DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT make 60-70 dollars an hour....I have been a local agency nurse for many years. The agency pay for the nurses range from 32-38 dollars an hour depending on the day and the shift...Also we pay more for our insurance than a hospital employee...and WE take the risk of not working for days at a time..If you don't work as an agency nurse then you should get your information correct. The agency makes about 45 dollars an hour now...as the rates have dropped...out of that the nurse makes 32-38...It has always interested me how much agency wages have been embelished by non-agency workers.