Reader email: I was reading your article about D.C. and thought you pretty much hit it right on when thinking about traveling to D.C. I agree with you about hitting DC on a regular basis. I have lived there and there are other spots I would suggest that are also free. I also suggest eating at he Lincoln Waffle House. I ate there last week and had a great experience as always. I started going there because I saw all the police and other workers in uniforms going there to eat. The prices are very reasonable. I agree it is like eating at the truck stops on Rote 7 in North Lima. Other Suggestions: 1) Get a Washington Post before you leave for DC and plan part of the trip for a special ........ ie an art exhibit, something reopening after it has been closed, new part of the Smithsonian events at the Holocaust Museum etc. 2) Use the subway, the taxi services, and the bus system to save your legs. 3) you did not mention Arlington National Cemetery. If you walk around it will take you a while to seed everything including thee Iowa Jima Memorial ( next to Arlington). A metro stop. 4) get a Travel book from AAA or other publishers and plan you days in DC before you go.
And please don't forget Jorgine's Deli .... it's a little gem of a place tucked inside the YMCA ... same for the collection of eats inside the old Phar-Mor. Lots of good food there, as well as a cool coffee shop.
Valley: I was at a bunch of Hounds games. Never did I see 3,000. I know that's the number they touted, but it was tickets sold, not butts in seats.
And the community support that funded 3000+ seats was quickly fading, as was Herb's commitment. From his own mouth, Herb did not want his wife to know how much money he lost. He was as tired of losing cash as the CHL was of him.
One way or another, death was coming to the Steelhounds the same as it was to 85% of the other ECHL squads.
If you like YSU and Scrappers, then I can't understand your anti-USHL stance as they are all roughly the same talent level. If anything, I would suggest the USHL players will be more advanced at their sport than the YSU and the Scrappers players are at theirs.
If the Phantoms were called "Class A" or "D1 AA" hockey, would that bluff you into thinking they were more advanced?
What you saw this year at the Chevy was a weak facsimile of a hockey organization.
The marketing was horrendous, and there was little in the way of bridge building from the organization to the community.
Some within the Phantoms would say that with only a 1-year guarantee for the Chevy, they were guarded about really hitting a home run in terms of drawing a huge crowd out of fear it would be a market that would only get turned over to a new ownership group next year.
If that was an organization-wide belief, there's some merit to that, but it was a bad decision.
(Colin Powell's Rule No. 12: Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers.)
The Phantoms were given the ball to run with, they should have run with it as best they could, and not just on one skate. If another team indeed was to bump them, then at best, they built the hockey appetite and will get a residual result. At worst, they could shown the community that we ran a top-notch effort despite the forecast.
Aside from that, I think there are some major operational concerns that need to be addressed if Zoldan's crew is to make this work. I like Zoldan's intentions and his commitment, but between his office and the ice surface there is major operational gap that needs spackle.
The USHL mandates a more structured operation than what exists now. That perhaps will create better bridge building and visioning to build upon the decent organization the Phantoms have now.
There are aspects of the ECHL hockey that are certainly more appealing than USHL, but the ultimate issue of success will have nothing to do with the play.
If red and blue and 3,000 of their pals show up for ECHL games, they will have one year to enjoy that team simply because 3,000 fans cannot sustain an E franchise.
In the last 10 years, 27 cities have failed at hosting an ECHL team. And they failed with attendance in the 4,000-5,000 range. They succeeded with crowds in the 8,000-9,000 range. Hell -- Dayton just threw in the towel, essentially. We're not bigger and more hockey educated than Dayton.
Look it up. I'm not a junior hockey junkie making this up.
The City and the Chevy hated the thought of junior hockey -- until they put their perceptions aside and just looked at the numbers.
And it helped to see sophisticated sports markets like Green Bay, Des Moines, Lincoln and Omaha packing them in for USHL.
You may not like junior hockey. But our market cannot sustain an ECHL team. Period.
Red: "Slow news day" is a frequent salvo with such situations.
But reality is that such news events like the SI cover jinx get promoted more so by the general public (you!!!) in some way, shape or form -- at the bar, at work, via email chains, etc. Then us media types -- with our ears to the ground -- deduce that "Hell -- lots of folks are talkin' about _____." Then we run out with our notebooks and nosiness and try to bring fact to the fiction.
So it's cute to say we're making news out of 1/3 and ignoring the 2/3. But in reality, the public had a curiosity or hunch about the jinx, and us media types stepped up to try to quantify the situation.
We do the same with police calls, government actions, school events, etc.
This is just some FYI. Thank for reading vindy.com. And thanks for using the message board for appropriate debate.
Apollo ... you seemed to comment just fine in that post. How did "the Vindy decision makers" adversely affect that post?
The message board hate crew will learn soon enough that the reality of our step is far less penalizing than the perception they've created. But as we know too well, many of the hate crew's comments have often struggled to mesh with reality.
I applaud all of you for great exchanges on this thread. From the Vindy team, thank you.
I like all the opinions on both sides of the debate. I like good hockey. I can see it with the E. But I also see it with the U.
What concerns me most about the pro model of the E is the failure rate of franchises. I've had a pretty good seat over the last few months in this process and the stat I offer that gets everyone's attention is that in the last 10 years of the ECHL, only 8 cities have had continuous franchises to start the E this year. Of those 8, one is Wheeling and we know they want to come here. One is Johnstown and they're barely alive, and the other (Augusta?) bagged it at mid-season.
But forget those 8 cities though. In the same 10 years, 24 cities have started AND FAILED at having an E team. Each city's story was the same as our SteelHounds gig: (Blank) team had a great first year, then attendance sank and financial troubles ensued."
The scary thing I share with folks was that those failed team THRIVED with crowds of 8K and 9K. They FAILED with crowds of 3K and 4K.
Their worst crowds are what we're hoping to have as great crowds here -- essentially the same size crowd - 3,500 - that turned out for the Thunder Friday night.
The real draw in coming to a hockey game -- for a general fan -- is ultimately the entertainment of it all. What will bring people out to either team (the U or the E) is a cheap entertainment ticket in the $5-$7 range. You won't get that low of a price with the E.
The U has worked in sophisticated sports markets like Green Bay, Omaha, Des Moines and Lincoln. Each offers tickets in that low range. Are we more special of a sports market than they are?
Thanks for weighing in. All your acknowledgments of Mark's feats are valid. But please --- that's what he's paid to do and what every lead manager in any public or private sector group should be doing -- in addition to living more under your means than ever before. And the 3% raise is a reality that is better than what most people will see --- if they're fortunate to see a paycheck at all this year.
Posted on August 9 at 10:44 a.m.
Reader email:
I was reading your article about D.C. and thought you pretty much hit it right on when thinking about traveling to D.C. I agree with you about hitting DC on a regular basis. I have lived there and there are other spots I would suggest that are also free. I also suggest eating at he Lincoln Waffle House. I ate there last week and had a great experience as always. I started going there because I saw all the police and other workers in uniforms going there to eat. The prices are very reasonable. I agree it is like eating at the truck stops on Rote 7 in North Lima.
Other Suggestions:
1) Get a Washington Post before you leave for DC and plan part of the trip for a special ........ ie an art exhibit, something reopening after it has been closed, new part of the Smithsonian events at the Holocaust Museum etc.
2) Use the subway, the taxi services, and the bus system to save your legs.
3) you did not mention Arlington National Cemetery. If you walk around it will take you a while to seed everything including thee Iowa Jima Memorial ( next to Arlington). A metro stop.
4) get a Travel book from AAA or other publishers and plan you days in DC before you go.
Posted on June 19 at 11:29 a.m.
And please don't forget Jorgine's Deli .... it's a little gem of a place tucked inside the YMCA ... same for the collection of eats inside the old Phar-Mor. Lots of good food there, as well as a cool coffee shop.
Posted on April 18 at 1:32 p.m.
Valley: I was at a bunch of Hounds games. Never did I see 3,000. I know that's the number they touted, but it was tickets sold, not butts in seats.
And the community support that funded 3000+ seats was quickly fading, as was Herb's commitment. From his own mouth, Herb did not want his wife to know how much money he lost. He was as tired of losing cash as the CHL was of him.
One way or another, death was coming to the Steelhounds the same as it was to 85% of the other ECHL squads.
If you like YSU and Scrappers, then I can't understand your anti-USHL stance as they are all roughly the same talent level. If anything, I would suggest the USHL players will be more advanced at their sport than the YSU and the Scrappers players are at theirs.
If the Phantoms were called "Class A" or "D1 AA" hockey, would that bluff you into thinking they were more advanced?
Posted on April 17 at 9 a.m.
What you saw this year at the Chevy was a weak facsimile of a hockey organization.
The marketing was horrendous, and there was little in the way of bridge building from the organization to the community.
Some within the Phantoms would say that with only a 1-year guarantee for the Chevy, they were guarded about really hitting a home run in terms of drawing a huge crowd out of fear it would be a market that would only get turned over to a new ownership group next year.
If that was an organization-wide belief, there's some merit to that, but it was a bad decision.
(Colin Powell's Rule No. 12: Don't take counsel of your fears or naysayers.)
The Phantoms were given the ball to run with, they should have run with it as best they could, and not just on one skate. If another team indeed was to bump them, then at best, they built the hockey appetite and will get a residual result. At worst, they could shown the community that we ran a top-notch effort despite the forecast.
Aside from that, I think there are some major operational concerns that need to be addressed if Zoldan's crew is to make this work. I like Zoldan's intentions and his commitment, but between his office and the ice surface there is major operational gap that needs spackle.
The USHL mandates a more structured operation than what exists now. That perhaps will create better bridge building and visioning to build upon the decent organization the Phantoms have now.
Posted on April 17 at 12:22 a.m.
There are aspects of the ECHL hockey that are certainly more appealing than USHL, but the ultimate issue of success will have nothing to do with the play.
If red and blue and 3,000 of their pals show up for ECHL games, they will have one year to enjoy that team simply because 3,000 fans cannot sustain an E franchise.
In the last 10 years, 27 cities have failed at hosting an ECHL team. And they failed with attendance in the 4,000-5,000 range. They succeeded with crowds in the 8,000-9,000 range. Hell -- Dayton just threw in the towel, essentially. We're not bigger and more hockey educated than Dayton.
Look it up. I'm not a junior hockey junkie making this up.
The City and the Chevy hated the thought of junior hockey -- until they put their perceptions aside and just looked at the numbers.
And it helped to see sophisticated sports markets like Green Bay, Des Moines, Lincoln and Omaha packing them in for USHL.
You may not like junior hockey. But our market cannot sustain an ECHL team. Period.
Posted on April 15 at 12:23 p.m.
Red:
"Slow news day" is a frequent salvo with such situations.
But reality is that such news events like the SI cover jinx get promoted more so by the general public (you!!!) in some way, shape or form -- at the bar, at work, via email chains, etc. Then us media types -- with our ears to the ground -- deduce that "Hell -- lots of folks are talkin' about _____." Then we run out with our notebooks and nosiness and try to bring fact to the fiction.
So it's cute to say we're making news out of 1/3 and ignoring the 2/3. But in reality, the public had a curiosity or hunch about the jinx, and us media types stepped up to try to quantify the situation.
We do the same with police calls, government actions, school events, etc.
This is just some FYI. Thank for reading vindy.com. And thanks for using the message board for appropriate debate.
Posted on April 11 at 7:34 p.m.
It was chocolate-induced ... and not easy.
Posted on March 30 at 10:55 a.m.
Apollo ... you seemed to comment just fine in that post. How did "the Vindy decision makers" adversely affect that post?
The message board hate crew will learn soon enough that the reality of our step is far less penalizing than the perception they've created. But as we know too well, many of the hate crew's comments have often struggled to mesh with reality.
Posted on March 29 at 12:55 a.m.
I applaud all of you for great exchanges on this thread. From the Vindy team, thank you.
I like all the opinions on both sides of the debate. I like good hockey. I can see it with the E. But I also see it with the U.
What concerns me most about the pro model of the E is the failure rate of franchises. I've had a pretty good seat over the last few months in this process and the stat I offer that gets everyone's attention is that in the last 10 years of the ECHL, only 8 cities have had continuous franchises to start the E this year. Of those 8, one is Wheeling and we know they want to come here. One is Johnstown and they're barely alive, and the other (Augusta?) bagged it at mid-season.
But forget those 8 cities though. In the same 10 years, 24 cities have started AND FAILED at having an E team. Each city's story was the same as our SteelHounds gig: (Blank) team had a great first year, then attendance sank and financial troubles ensued."
The scary thing I share with folks was that those failed team THRIVED with crowds of 8K and 9K. They FAILED with crowds of 3K and 4K.
Their worst crowds are what we're hoping to have as great crowds here -- essentially the same size crowd - 3,500 - that turned out for the Thunder Friday night.
The real draw in coming to a hockey game -- for a general fan -- is ultimately the entertainment of it all. What will bring people out to either team (the U or the E) is a cheap entertainment ticket in the $5-$7 range. You won't get that low of a price with the E.
The U has worked in sophisticated sports markets like Green Bay, Omaha, Des Moines and Lincoln. Each offers tickets in that low range. Are we more special of a sports market than they are?
Posted on March 19 at 5:39 p.m.
Thanks for weighing in. All your acknowledgments of Mark's feats are valid. But please --- that's what he's paid to do and what every lead manager in any public or private sector group should be doing -- in addition to living more under your means than ever before.
And the 3% raise is a reality that is better than what most people will see --- if they're fortunate to see a paycheck at all this year.